molly.com
Monday 16 June 2008
Hooters: Not A Fair Place to Speak Geek
I just was informed by a friend that there’s a “Geek Meet” in Tucson this week, to be held at the local Hooters. For those unfamiliar Hooters is a restaurant that is clearly geared toward men, with women in little shorts and tight tiny tops serving up hot wings and chicken fingers.
Now I like attractive, sexy people as much as the next person, but c’mon. Isn’t this just a little way to send a message to women that they aren’t welcome unless they are there to shake and serve?
I have NO problem with the existence of Hooters, or women with fabulous breasts, or people who want to enjoy that. I DO have a problem with the message this kind of event sends, whether it was intended as such or not.
(Update: The organizers have changed the venue and have explicitly stated they DO want more women to join in the conversation. Thank you for that, my friends).
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Filed under: professional, standards, software, web design and development, food and drink, society, community
Posted by: Molly | 12:01 am |
June 16th, 2008 at 12:29 am
That’s pretty poor professional standards being shown there. Who the hell organised such a thing Holly? Surely there’s a nicer and more professional location to be selected than the crassness of Hooters!?
*stokes the coals*
June 16th, 2008 at 12:34 am
Hooters? That’s a terrible place to eat. The food is all fried, or refined carbohydrates, or both. Very much against the principles of BodyOptimization. Few if any “attractive, sexy people” actually eat at Hooters. I’d avoid it.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:57 am
interesting. they better get some male (waiters) for that event!~
June 16th, 2008 at 12:59 am
hah…what a bunch of muppets. was this the “geek” type that lives in their mum’s basement and has never seen a woman in real life?
June 16th, 2008 at 1:04 am
That is just plain sexism. Big immature men seeing the opposite sex as sexual objects (like a Car) and not real people. Yes I find the opposite sex attractive, yes the animal nature in me but really?
What message are we sending when a meet up is at a place called Hooters?
June 16th, 2008 at 1:22 am
There’s been a lot of debate here in Missoula about the new Hooters coming to town. Personally, my main problem with it is that it’s not egalitarian. Where are the scantily clad men serving up delicious tidbits for my dining pleasure?
June 16th, 2008 at 1:39 am
It does seem somewhat juvenile to arrange a meet at Hooters! Irrespective of what I might think about the place, choosing this as a meeting venue does hint at the level of discussion you’ll find when you get there. I’d avoid this meet like the plague!
June 16th, 2008 at 2:22 am
Oh yeah, the egalitarian thing is a good one. If there were sexily clad male servers at Hooters we could go one step further and call it a “Meat Up”
June 16th, 2008 at 2:23 am
@shubox — Couldn’t agree more! The inappropriate factor Molly points out aside, I doubt Hooters is all that conducive to the type of networking I’d dare say the majority of the group’s members are looking for.
One would think the organizer would be a tad bit more careful in choosing the venue he/she uses to represent the group.
June 16th, 2008 at 2:42 am
Maybe hosting a Geek meet in Hooters is a way to test their Geek metal? If they can still talk Geek whilst the Hooters women are serving them they can be reassured that their way with the Geek force is still strong. Obviously it is only a certainl level of male Geek that is in need of such reassurance
June 16th, 2008 at 2:58 am
Sexism aside, I don’t really understand the motivation of choosing a high-distraction location for a Geek Meet?
Would you consider a football match a suitable location? Probably not.
One would assume that the priority would be to network with other Geeks. If you really wanted to look at scantily clad ladies, I am sure that more interesting venues could be found with very little effort.
June 16th, 2008 at 4:11 am
I guess some just need an excuse to go there. Calling it a “Geek Meet” serves that goal, but meeting geeks is probably not the goal itself
June 16th, 2008 at 4:14 am
Chicken fingers?? Do they also serve deep-fried chicken lips? What I really want to know is how do the hostesses attach a pocket protector and will the pickett slide rule be smacking them in the nose with each step they take?
June 16th, 2008 at 4:36 am
The concept of attractive people serving you food in restaurants is almost completely universal. In Japan they have Maid Cafes and Butler Cafes, where the waitresses and waiters look after your every whim in the same way as a servant would… so long as you observe the ‘no touching’ rule. In the US and Europe, the Playboy clubs are still popular, as are the Peter Stringfellow’s gentlemen’s clubs.
This is not to say that I approve of the concept… I personally find it degrading, but there is obviously a market for it. The idea that a Geek Meet would choose to hold an event in such a restaurant is somewhat ironic given that the stereotypical geek is often described as a peculiar or otherwise odd person, socially inept and obsessed with technology.
June 16th, 2008 at 5:30 am
This could only happen in America.
This whole Geek/nerd culture is something uniquely American. Only some in Australia seem to follow these American cultural norms. It’s like Americans haven’t quite worked out why a stereotypical family would have a kid name Bart.
I couldn’t see an establishment in Australia being called Hooters.
I so glad us Australians now have a Prime Minister who can now stand up to a President. Mr. Bush is a typical Simpson or ‘family guy’.
Come on Americans, don’t you remember 1968 or 1867.
June 16th, 2008 at 5:31 am
I agree with the premise that something labeled a ‘geek meet’ is (and should) be something different than ‘a night out at Hooters.’ But quite frankly, some geek men are so determined to belittle women that it’s amazing these events aren’t always held at strip clubs. And no, I don’t think the answer is to perpetuate the cycle and objectify men; it just does the same thing 180-style. (caveat: I have dated several male strippers, and don’t really have an issue with a spade being called a spade, per se)
June 16th, 2008 at 5:32 am
To play devils advocate (whilst knowing nothing about the situation other htan what’s beensaid here); why do people see this as ’sending a message’? There’s not likely any message being sent. There’s a big difference between sending a message (we chose hooters to infer that girls aren’t welcome in this meeting) and simply reading a message into something (I think you chose hooters to send a message).
The likelihood is that they chose hooters because that’s where they want to go. It’s unlikely they thought about ’sending a message’, or whether it may not be a location everyone would enjoy. It’s also unlikely that they care too much about ‘message sending’; by arranging a location and sending out open invites all they’re doing is sending open invites. I suspect this is as much about going to hooters and having fun as it is about speaking geek.
Is it a potentially unwise decision for a location? If the aim is to be welcoming to all and sundry, then yes it’s unwise. Is it really a loaded message by a group of pig-men out to ogle women? No, probably not. It could well be nothing more than a group of people heading to the pub and opening the invite to anyone interested in going to the pub. It’s subjective on what the aim is; is it speaking geek or is it having a laugh with geek on the side?
As a certain villian in a certain film says: “Why so serious?”.
June 16th, 2008 at 5:53 am
Huh-huh huh-huh. Molly wrote ‘breasts’ huh-huh huh-huh. Cool!
June 16th, 2008 at 5:53 am
Does Tucson have a Chippendale’s club? Could be a good spot for a geek meeting the following month. Wonder how the fellas in Tucson would like that?
June 16th, 2008 at 6:18 am
Funny: I noticed an article on the Wall Street Journal saying that women write better code.
http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/06/06/men-write-code-from-mars-women-write-more-helpful-code-from-venus/
I’m not sure if they do, but I am sure that do write better code when we would hold a Coding Contest at Hooter’s
June 16th, 2008 at 6:30 am
And here I thought Second Life was the worst place I’ve seen for a tech meetup.
And like others have said, I don’t think its a particularly bad venue because of the staff, but because its just not a relaxing place for a group to get together and mingle - foods just ok, bad decor, and because the chance people [female or male] might be uncomfortable there and not as social as they’d otherwise be.
June 16th, 2008 at 6:40 am
You guys all sound like a bunch of cry babies, if you haven’t been around the last 10 years or so, I’m pretty sure Hooters is a family restaurant. I don’t eat that type of food so I’m not one basing my opinion on that or the fact that I don’t mind seeing pretty girls. I have only been to Hooters a couple times and both times it was my Girlfriends idea.
I’m sure they just chose the place because they like chicken wings. To say they are trying to send a message across of women not being allowed is just ignorant on your part in my eyes So if a bunch of geeks want to go eat some chicken wings at a place that is known for chicken wings and girls in small clothes oh well. Plenty of women eat there and enjoy it.
It is nothing close to a strip club or what not like other people have tried to portray it in comparison of having it at a chippindales club.
I hate it when people try to make dramatic debates over something that is over analyzed. Quit trying to burn people at the stake and have your little minions follow your lead because they are in envy of your little status in the world of web development. Get off the bandwagon people.
June 16th, 2008 at 6:52 am
Can I also feel offended because there’s nothing for me to eat at Hooters? Nothing vegetarian or vegan on the menu.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:14 am
Why don’t you have a problem with the existence of Hooters? Attractive sexy people are great, yes, but they deserve respect too!
Don’t want to sound like a feminist crank, just curious…
June 16th, 2008 at 7:26 am
@Rob: I’m pretty sure that beer is vegetarian - I could be wrong…
June 16th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Can’t eat beer
June 16th, 2008 at 7:48 am
I may have started a war…
June 16th, 2008 at 7:49 am
@ Dan Shields.
You write,
“You guys all sound like a bunch of cry babies”
Is that what you think we are? What a way to start a comment, on the attack straight away.
“I hate it when people try to make dramatic debates over something that is over analyzed.”
Only if you could see that some people will see right through you.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:59 am
@ Dan
for someone complaining about overanalyzing, I think you’re overanalyzing the complaints here.
If you read many responses, mine included I don’t think we’re focusing on the Hooters Girls .. in either their not really scantily clad reality or the idea. Some just don’t think its a good venue for an event like this even if they might go there otherwise. Its got a few things going for them - the lights are on so you can see people, it might be big enough, it will let those under 21 in. Those traits puts it on par with a Denny’s as a ‘great’ place for a tech meetup if you ask me. But the downsides - lack of food options [diet, veg], crappy setup for mingling, sometimes loud sportbar feel, may make a % of people uncomfortable - those all sink the idea for me.
June 16th, 2008 at 8:02 am
A lot of beer using fish in it, if I was thinking better today I could tell you which bit (float bladders?) so unless it’s intentionally vegetarian beer, then it probably isn’t. Although, of course, it all depends on your personal flavour of vegetarian…
June 16th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Yeah probably, it was early and I let my inner rage out. I understand what you are saying I am not sure how the SpeakGeek events are usually held but I know other events I have attended locally such as Refresh meetings have been at local restaurants and bars and just don’t see the the difference between any of those types of places, hooters and intentions of making women feel uncomfortable about attending.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Touché, dearest Molly. We meant no offense, and your points are well taken. I, for one, would love to have a larger female representation at the meetings.
Hopefully we can arrange for a more suitable meeting place for this week’s meeting (though it is this Thursday), and certainly for future events.
We would love to take recommendations for a better location: we’ve tried Old Chicago, Famous Sam’s, and the B Line on 4th. Issues include, some members like to smoke, most members would like an adult beverage during the meeting, and we need a big table.
Ideas / thoughts?
While I’m here: if you live in southern Arizona we’d love to have you join us! See the event on Upcoming: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/779029/.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Molly,
It is an unfortunate oversight and I am sure that your speaking up will be greatly appreciated and efforts will be made to find a much better venue.
I think it was just plain old not thinking about it. My guess is that it was picked more for it’s location in tucson and the fact that it is pretty quiet (not a lot of loud patrons, or many patrons at all
Sam D
June 16th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Why would they want to risk getting wing sauce on their laptops?
June 16th, 2008 at 9:59 am
A family restaurant? Clearly if you doubt my concern about the message please visit the site. That is how the restaurant chooses to represent themselves, and let me tell you it does not reach out to me and make me feel all warm and welcome as a place to go and meet up with what will mostly be a group of men anyway.
Here’s a point: If the desire is for a bunch of MEN to get together and speak geek, then f’in say so. “MENS GEEK MEETUP” is clear and to the point. Offensive in its own right, I suppose, but at least far less insulting to some sensibilities.
June 16th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Wow this is freaking awesome Molly! Having a geek meet at hooters says a lot about the group. I’m not sure it says women aren’t welcome unless they’re shaking and serving… but it sure says (to me) the group doesn’t have a lot of women in it right now, and adding more isn’t the highest priority.
Take a minute and go check out the Hooters website hooters.com. Be sure to read the lovely guide to being a Hooters girl:
http://www.hooters.com/hootersgirl/index.html
Highlights include:
Don’t forget to wear blush! Doing so will leave you looking lifeless!
Roots should never show through! You never know hen you’ll be photographed or asked to go on a photo shoot or promotion. Be sure to always look camera ready!
And, don’t forget Hooters Magazine:
http://www.hootersmagazine.com/
Molly, I love you!!
June 16th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Every time I’m in Hooters (which isn’t very often, Wing House has much better food and prettier waitresses) half the patrons are female.
It’s just you.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
It’s just you!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
@syberghost
Are you talking to Molly?! If you’ve read more than 3 of the comments here… you would see it’s not just her! I don’t care how many battered, low-esteemed, in-tow women get talked in to eating at that soft-porn shop by their fathers/boyfriend/brothers/husbands but it’s a joke to think that that place is anything more than a chicken finger brothel!
I’m tempted to stop in there a few times in the next month and see how accurate your “half are women” assessment is. I’m guessing it’s off, way off.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I know nothing about Hooters, having never been to one, but I would not feel comfortable going to one for the first time to meet a bunch of men I don’t know.
June 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
@stephanie: I think that comment sums it up perfectly.
June 16th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Maybe they’ll have waiters with man-boobs at the new venue. I think that would be great.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Coincidentally, last week a Hooters restaurant finally opened in Silicon Valley–right by eBay Headquarters:
Hooters - Campbell, CA 95008 [yelp.com]
I’ve been to Hooters only once, last year, in Shanghai of all places.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:56 am
If Hooters is a “family” restaurant, then society as a whole has certainly degraded even further than I thought from the onslaught of “reality TV” and the newest American Idol garnering more votes than the elections to vote in our next President.
Being a single parent (or even if I were married) I for one, wouldn’t bring my two children there.
I’d rather a Geek Meet be held @ Chuck E. Cheese, there’s more education value there and the food is better. The only time I went to a Hooters (in San Diego) I felt less intelligent after leaving the establishment.
It’s good to see some sort of an agreement was reached that made both sides content.
June 17th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Forget trying to send a message to women. I would take it as them saying they don’t want anyone to go.
June 17th, 2008 at 8:53 am
What if the meeting were at a sporting event, say a basketball game. And one of the men attending the meeting says, “I have no problem with men playing basketball, but I do think this sends a message that men should be muscular and athletic.”
June 17th, 2008 at 9:40 am
On a related note: have you heard about the “Open Source Boob Project?”
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/sex/83256/#more
June 18th, 2008 at 7:47 am
I’m thrilled to see there’s been a change in location. Congrats to the group for making a good decision and congrats to Molly for bringing this up.
For our local meetups we usually head to a licensed coffee shop. So far, so good. Lots of variety on the menu and we can still hear each other.
June 18th, 2008 at 8:32 am
I had to laugh when I saw that - it makes me think of the “Old Boys’ Network” that is so prevalent in the legal field.
@David: I think that’s a completely different issue. A sporting event’s primary purpose is not to have men in a subservient position in tight, revealing outfits. (Also, basketball uniforms are not that revealing, unless you consider shoulders scandalous.)
(I didn’t consider myself a feminist until I became a paralegal.)
June 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Glad to see that reason prevailed and the venue was changed. I’m the first to call someone out when I think they’re overreacting to things like this, but I’m with you on this one, Molly. I’d be a bit uncomfortable going to Hooters, and I’m a straight man, so I can’t imagine why a woman would show up to meet men she didn’t know.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Sure, the waitresses are nice to look at and they’re all flashy, but how accessible are they really? How do they rank in usability? How standards compliant are they?
On the other hand, maybe the women can use this to ask for a male stripper in the next meeting.
June 19th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
And on another note: do all ‘networking’ events need to take place at a bar or club? I like to have a pint of beer now and again, however I have known more than a few folks struggling with alcoholism that are left out of the networking game. Nevermind those of us that simply think trying to discuss current trends in web development while shouting over the latest bump-and-grind tune is a fruitless effort. Maybe they are better suited to carry the title ‘mixer’. Pun intended.
June 19th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Not really a suitable place for a Geek Meet-up (I’m glad the organisers woke-up and changed the venue!)
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:07 pm
interesting. =)))
June 25th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Wonderful story Molly
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:04 am
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