molly.com
Saturday 9 September 2006
The Shadow Knows: Depression in the IT Profession
One of my true blue friends and one of the major stars of the web design and development world, John Allsopp, has posted what I believe to be a very important article about depression in our field.
John writes:
While it is easy, and dangerous, to stereotype IT professionals (“geeks”) and the kinds of personality that appear to be predisposed to depression, qualities we tend to associate with many IT professionals like obsessiveness, very high standards, social anxiety, creativity, coupled with stressful life circumstances (extremely long hours, arbitrary deadlines, lack of control over many variables of the work environment, lack of job security) seem to be a recipe for disaster when it comes to depression.
And I couldn’t agree more. As I, too, am a person who has taken a lot of risks sharing personal issues, it is my feeling that an open, truthful discussion about depression and related problems in our field is a very good thing. We all need to learn better coping skills in general, and this is an opportunity to help everyone, not just those who are suffering from a depressive illness.
I applaud John his courage in sharing his story and thoughts. I find it comforting as well as intriguing how they so closely relate to my own. In the comments in his post it’s absolutely fascinating to read how people didn’t expect a person who is as idealistic, passionate, energetic, fun-loving and joyous as John to have this shadow. Many have said the same of me as well. I don’t understand it and I never will, because I am a fundamentally joyous person. To have that joy slip out and to grasp and grasp at it without being able to find it is a dark, horrific ordeal for both those of us who are suffering from the illness as well as those who care for us.
As John points out, friends make the difference. And treatment makes the difference. I know my friends have helped so very much. And treatment has definitely helped me. I’m feeling optimistic again, hopeful for the future – something that seemed to have disappeared in the darkness of my illness.
I’m looking forward to celebrating friendship and healing with John and the many wonderful friends met and to-be-met in just a few weeks at Web Directions, as well as my friends and readers here who have been so supportive through very difficult times.
Here’s to better days!
Filed under: faith(less)
Posted by: Molly | 15:21 | Comments (42)
Yes, very true. I suffer from depression as well. I finally started getting treatment two years ago (after suffering for almost 20) and things are much better now.
Yes, family and friends do help a lot. I have a very supportive partner now who helps keep me on an even keel and lessen the dark times.
Thank you for posting this. The more openly the depression is discussed, maybe more people will seek, and get, treatment.
Thanks for linking to the post Molly, and for your sharing of yourself, your experiences, your ups and downs. Our discussions at conferences – on several continents now – via email and skype, have really helped me too to articulate and publish these thoughts.
j
Tris, John, thanks for starting the commentary on this post, and for sharing your thoughts. It’s especially wonderful to see men talking about this openly, because I think in some ways it’s even harder for a man to be open about such an issue. Bravo to you both.
“obsessiveness, very high standards, social anxiety, creativity, coupled with stressful life circumstances (extremely long hours, arbitrary deadlines, lack of control over many variables of the work environment, lack of job security”
Sounds very much like something else I am intimately familiar with
)
I’m serious. Anyone who considers themselves to have social anxiety, anxiety over lack of control, obsessiveness etc need to see this:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
I moved from Fine Art into Web…
Talk about getting out of the depression fry-pan and into the fire.
The great irony of depression is that it is a very, very personal illness, but you need the support of others to overcome it.
I’ll drink to that. (the hears to better days bit)
I’ve known lows, not like others, but its a bit depressing when people comment that you’re looking up beat, especially when it only happens once a month or so.
For us high-anxiety types, depression can result from simple burnout. Good professional help is very hard to find, but it can save your life. In my case, overcoming depression has required the daily work to recognize that I am a just another bozo on this bus. It has required the support of my family and friends, the belief of my psychiatrist that I would recover, medications to keep me alive until very recently, and years and years of damned hard work at self-transformation. I have had to abandon perfectionism and many other character traits and habits that I prized. I still keep them in my repertoire, but I am learning not to let them rule me. When you are by nature an exuberant and highly creative person, the cognitive-motor slowing characteristic of depression can produce second-order depression as you wonder where your razor-sharp analytical thinking, your quick wit, and above all your overflowing creativity have disappeared, and whether you will ever get them back. Hope is the key. Hope produces courage, the courage to persevere, to keep on putting one foot after another. Find friends who give you hope. This is not easy, as another symptom of depression is self-imposed isolation, all the more so for those of us who are habitually socially anxious.
Resources for understanding and responding to depression in oneself and others:
I began with “Touched by Fire”, Kay Redfield Jamison’s landmark study of depression and manic-depressive illness in highly creative people and there families.
I’ll add resources in future. I hope that others will do the same.
Gavin: Yes, precisely. As Paul points out, the self-isolation issue only adds to that, too. I do that. But I’m learning not to.
Thanks so much for talking about this Molly, I never thought about connecting the two. I have to agree that it’s especially important just to acknowledge depression, to chisel away at the stigma. I’m continually amazed at the low level of importance mental health is given vs. physical health.
Part of John’s post especially made sense:
“Our industry tends to allow us to hide away, in front of our screens, in our cubicles, “pulling all nighters”, connecting via email, chat, all great ways to avoid strong social contact outside the workplace.”
I’m used to getting flack for that, how I’d much rather email someone than talk to them on the phone. I wonder if this social avoidance comes from depression or does it exist independently? Maybe it doesn’t even matter at this point.
Open discussion is definitely needed, thanks for making the decision to share what is considered by many to be too personal. Look at what’s come out of that, how many readers are like me, saying “wow, Molly too huh?” So I’m not alone…
[...] [Edit: Also just noticed that bloggers Molly and John have both recently posted about depression. Maybe there’s something in the air tonight? As long as it’s not Phil Collins…] [...]
I have no idea if jobs in web and IT contribute to depression, or the people that gravitate to that line of work are predisposed to depression.
Either way the physical isolation doesn’t help recovery. As John has said, more research needs to be done.
I think it is important to point out to those who have never suffered depression that you can be surrounded by people but still feel isolated. Some of this is the nature of the illness but the social stigma (…and fear. See John’s article regarding insurance firms.) is also a strong barrier. Ignorance is rife. It isn’t as bad as the public perception of schizophrenia but sometimes it doesn’t seem far behind.
The support (and prodding) of other people is so important — when you are in the well it is very hard to see the way out. Those who don’t have close friends or family (who understand, or try to understand — that’s important) can be in a bad place. Maybe a discussion like this can tip at least one of those people in the direction of professional help. Professionals won’t judge you, they won’t stigmatize you, they won’t demonize you, they will treat depression for what it is — just another illness.
Gavin: Actually, I would have to disagree to some extent on so-called professional treatment. This may be a gender issue, but women are expected by some to be hysterical, histrionic, emotional, depressive and the tendency is to just toss us anti-anxiety drugs or anti-depressants without doing a real workup to see what’s going on, or advising on where and how to get ongoing support. I’ve had this done to me by female doctors, ironically, and it’s been a male psychiatrist who in the end seems to be getting the situation clarified medically. Add the support of a very good counselor and I would say I finally (hope) I’ve hit the sweet spot.
So yes, seeking out a professional is a must, but it’s not a “take what you get” scenario. The patient has to be proactive, and that is sometimes very difficult for a depressed individual. You have to determine if the people you’re working with are giving you truly individual treatment and not just throwing a “one-size-fits-all” solution at you.
Hey Molly.
Point taken. I was thinking that getting professional help was better than being alone and things getting worse. But yes, just any “professional help” is not good enough.
I think having an understanding GP and a supportive partner had blinded me to the possibility of truly bad medical professionals. God knows they are out there.
Maybe I am the wrong person to talk about treatment. I was fortunate.
How do you lessen the chances — when you have finally gotten up the courage to seek help — of them hitting you with the: “it’s all in your head” or: “just get over it” or worse: “just take these three times a day”.
This topic could not be more timely for me. I’ve been on a roller-coaster of different drs, different medications, different kinds of therapy for the last 5 years, plus I’ve been in a difficult marriage and then a difficult divorce.
None of the meds I’ve received have ever worked for me: SSRIs make me feel like a total zombie and the other kinds just plain don’t work. It’s awful to think, “well, if I gets too bad, I can always ask for help,” only to find that the help isn’t there when you finally ask for it. Now I’ve used up all my mental health insurance for the year and I sit in my cube and cry because I’m so depressed and it seems like there’s nothing that can help.
It is encouraging to read about the experiences of others and I have no doubt that my schedule this year contributed to my current situation: From January to June, I never had a weekend off and I routinely worked 80 hour weeks and several times I worked all night to make a deadline. I’ll never do that again – but that’s a difficult promise to keep when you know there’s 100s of kids coming up out of school just dying to do your job.
I think that’s another bad thing about high tech – because it keeps changing to a certain extent you are always a beginner. I’m a certified Flash designer, but I have to always take the time to read up and learn all the latest techniques constantly so I don’t get left in the dust.
And, of course, I’ve got to keep up with my regular workload. And take care of my 3 kids as a single mom.
Anyway, thanks for opening the topic – I’m looking forward to reading more.
Katy,
all I can say is that you are amazing. In your circumstances, I don’t think anyone would be able to remmotely keep an even keel.
Some of us are luckier than others – my first go at an SSRI worked well. Others I know needed to change from one to another til they get the right one. So don’t necessarily think that cause one ot two SSRIs were bad, that there is no hope there. Shrinnks often prescribe an SSRI and other meds they have alot of experience with. So, it may be you need to reassess whether that shrink is right for your situation,and maybe get a second opinion. Yes, it is not necessarily cheap (I am lucky enough to live in a country with a public health system, which make a huge difference when I was seeing a doctor every other week, and made the medicine affordable, but that’s a whole nuther story.)
Alll the best, and know that you are incredible for doing as well as you are doing.
john
You can look at it from 2 angles. Your job is stressful & you can’t take the hours, or Your job is stressful but it’s your choice to be there. If you’re feeling burnt out or stressed, take a break from work or if it’s too much, find another job. “Your health is way more important than your job!”
Katy, I would have crumpled under what you are experiencing. John is right — you are amazing. Please keep fighting. Please prevail.
I wasn’t sure whether to air my dirty laundry on my site or stinky up Molly’s comments. I thought here would keep in it in context. Please forgive my indulgence.
The kids might not get the reference but: it isn’t evil lurking in the hearts of men — it is a little moth.
It is so hard to hear about intelligent, creative, vibrant, spontaneous, wonderful people in the grip of this illness.
It has two faces: when you are fighting it no one sees the inner torment, but when it is winning no one sees the spark inside that just can’t get out. Some creative people can thrive under depression others can’t.
Imagine cupping your hands around a small moth.
It took me about a year to get through the ‘bad things’ but one of the lasting effects for me has been an inability to draw. I used to be a Fine Art student majoring in painting, printmaking and drawing. I loved illustration and still have a passion for (good) illustrated children’s books.
Since my little flirt with depression you can count the number of times I have drawn and painted on your fingers. That was eleven years ago last week.
I haven’t decided if my moth was trapped or protected but it is about time to open my hands again.
It is ironic that two people who helped to rekindle my passion for the web and the flow-on confidence to my drawing were Molly and John at WE05. (Also: John; thank you for your thoughtful advice re: my wife’s back problem, and Molly; I stole far too much of your time).
If you have an appreciation of fine illustration and have been in the “pit” you must, must, must read “The Red Tree” by Shaun Tan. Please seek it out. Molly, John — if you don’t find it, mine is coming to Sydney with me.
There are too many incompetent medical professionals out there. MDs want to fix things; when they can’t fix you, you must be a noncompliant patient. Finding a pshrink when you’re sick is hard; getting up the courage to switch when he/she is doing you more harm than good is harder. Social workers/counselors/psychologists have different hangups than docs, but can be just as useless. Sometimes you might just have to move to someplace where better care is available. Only a small fraction of mental health professionals are willing to help you in your journey of self transformation. If you find one, you have found a priceless gem. It helps if you are stubborn enough, even in the depths of your illness, to keep on searching for the help you need. Letting your family and friends in can help — but again, in the end, you must evaluate who is really helping you and who is doing you more harm than good. Mental illness simply scares hell out of most people, and their reaction to their fear, embodied in you, might not do you a whole lot of good. Stick to those friends who believe in you unshakably. If they do not profess to understand, so much the better. Only those who have been to hell and back understand — except for a few individuals with extraordinary empathy. You might find that the people who help you the most are the ones who say and mean that they do not understand you and nevertheless believe in you and support you.
The interesting standpoint of depression which I think so many people miss (including psychiatrists) especially when dealing with “geeks” like us is that we are logical by nature. Therefore, depression despite things being relatively normal, makes no sense; thus, the depression gets worse (Where’s Nine Inch Nails when you need them?). ie. I’m depressed because I’m depressed, because there is no logical reason for me to be depressed. Then the obsessiveness kicks in and that’s all you can think about – solving the problem (which is what we do – solve problems) of: Why am I depressed?
I’ll save my own dirty laundry for another day. I’m just glad to know I’m not alone, thanks for that. I’ll see you guys around.
Have fun.
Its true, I thought I was alone in this. I work hard and sometimes need to get out there. Friends call me up and we take a drive out of the concrete jungle of Nairobi into the cool relaxed 14 falls where I become myself.
Molly, glad to have found your (excellent) blog and kind greetings from Canada.
It’s lovely how people discover people on the the Internet… Very early morning in Toronto, followed a trail of links [1] Sarah Blow (UK software engineer and Founder London Girl Geek Dinners) reference to upcoming London Geek Dinner [2] London Geek Dinner site mentioning Molly [3] First visit to your site, quick scan of your recent posts, noted this post on depression and decided to review the (22) comments.
I am touched by the courage of your post regarding depression and by the courage of the brave people commenting on their very personal experiences. At the same time I wonder, “how can these people manage to continue to function in spite of the pain of their depressive state? And, do people ever get over this state, in other words, is there hope, light, healing and recovery at the end of the tunnel?”
I’m an ancient guy, darn near 60, father of eight now grown children and single parent for a few years. Thank God I was making money when I became a single parent. The demands on my time from my children and work were right off the scale. The good news at that time being I had zero time for acknowledging any emotion or state other than, “you gotta be a rock”.
A few years later I had more time and “bingo” did I ever get bummed out. Today I recognize that my expression “bummed out” really meant what you younger people refer to as depression. I was not willing to take medications and for sure “you gotta be a rock” no longer applied in my life.
I began a difficult (for me) process of rebuiding my life, creating and living new values, finding and creating a new way of living. Wish I could say [a] it was easy, and [b] mission accomplished. Neither is the case, I just keep working at it daily. I married again in 1991, an astonishingly great woman, and hope we get to celebrate 50 years together. I am still finding new ways to relate to my beautiful (now grown) children and sense that they love me. I have a deep sense of empathy for young people, and for some not entirely understood reason, especially those in the technology world.
My sense of passion, enthusiasm and desire for a great life’s mission remain strong. My hopes and dreams of good for this world are daily before me, and my heart and prayers daily always present for people, for their healing, and for their health, happiness and joy.
Molly, once again thank you for this post.
[...] Molly Holzschlag and her friends discuss depression in the IT industry. [...]
Reading the shadow knows from molly.com gave me much needed relief from my depression, and motivated me to give something back in return.
I am a 24 year old male who has has been working in the IT Industry for a couple years now. I have battled depression since late middle school. I have tried many things to overcome my depression, but only as of recently have I found a great deal of relief in something I never before believed in, Religion: Christianity to be specific.
I am not here to convert people to one religion or another (that’s a Pastor’s job I guess), though I would love if I could touch the heart and mind of at least one person here. I truely do think that belief in a higher-power or in some kind-of divinity is something that can provide people who battle depression a great deal of relief and comfort, especially when the times are at their worst.
To relay somewhat of a personal testimony, I had become quite a workaholic after my graduation from college, never taking a single vacation. Unfortunately (and maybe as a result), this summer I experienced a nervous breakdown. Reading has always been a hobby of mine and one of the books I had been reading this summer was Lincoln’s Melancholy (an excellent book by the way). Abraham Lincoln had battled depression most of his entire life and during the worst of times found solace in The Bible. In particular, “The Book of Job.” I thought that I myself would give this a try and I read the book of Job from the Bible. Reading the book gave me so much joy and the rest, well, is history. I still battle depression in my life, but at least I can now say that I am a believer and that I have hope.
I recently suffered from depression, anxiety attacks and panic attacks.
I too was an IT Manager working for a large corporate bank. The work was very stressful, but I seemed to cope okay.
Then one day out of the blue boom! My world just came crashing down around me.
Its funny how we all have the ability to worry and then one day the it takes on a new mean and it starts affecting our lives.
If you can get yourself out of the infinite thought loop, then it can help to give the things that get you down a new meaning.
it is great
thankyou ..
good sitee
good blogger
very nice
I never knew the that there were so many IT people suffering with this type of thing. I had a long spell with depression. I am also an IT person. I never would have put the two together. Interesting reading.
very nice
very nice
lllll