molly.com
Friday 16 September 2005
No Mr. Ballmer, Microsoft Will Not Win the Web
Reading through an article about Microsoft in Business Week, I was not shocked but oh so enraged by this bit from an interview with CEO Steve Ballmer:
“We won the desktop. We won the server. We will win the Web. We will move fast, we will get there. We will win the Web.”
In the past months, WaSP and Microsoft have been working together in the trenches to improve standards support in Microsoft products. While this is certainly a very positive move on Microsoft’s part, critics of both Microsoft and WaSP have pointed out Microsoft’s long history of aggressive business practices and ideologies. As a member of the WaSP / Microsoft Task Force, I’m extremely confident that the developers we’re working with get it and it’s been my take to separate Microsoft business practices and ideologies from the day-to-day software development work. And I stand by that perspective.
What I cannot stay silent about when reading these words is how blatantly uncaring a statement this is. How ignorant and arrogant and just plain wrong.
The Web is not a prize to be won, and Mr. Ballmer’s attitude is deplorable in the light of what the Web means to the world, to users, to designers and developers and to put it into Microsoft parlance, customers.
The Web belongs to everyone. The Web’s core vision and value is to be platform independent. Microsoft has no right to think it can win a tool that is for the people, of the people, and ultimately – by the people.
No Mr. Ballmer, you will never win the Web for one very good reason: We the people will make sure you never do.
Filed under: WaSP, software, standards, web design and development
Posted by: Molly | 14:47 | Comments (135)
No, Microsoft didn’t win anything. They monopolized everything. How could they win with no competition?
Ah.. you’re starting to see what does happen when competition arises.
Actually I can’t believe it to read things like this. It is all relative in this business. There is a talk the web is from us, the users, consumers. Now to make this short… Who made MS what it is right now? Isn’t it the consumer who bought and still buy their products? Apple is about what? 3% to 4% in the OS market? Why? To expensive for the main public of course… Linux couldn’t manage to get a smooth installing consumer based desktop, Firefox is slowing down at 10%, Opera is asking money for their ‘concert ticket’, Skype Team is going to take a long vacation on a tropical Island, AOL going to be MS-LOL… It is all about the bucks nothing else. So what? All those companies create thousands of jobs for thousands of people where ever in the world. So tell me, if the consumer didn’t buy it how come MS is to that size and point as where they are right now? “We the people will make sure you never do.” We the consumers have choosen already to let MS dominate big parts of the market. Who says if we all choose for say Google that they wouldn’t get the same attitude 10 years from now? They already being very busy to improve their databases with private info all with one goal in mind… To see what your doing and how to get YOU in their million/billion dollar business as consumer. The more consumers the more money… All will shake hands in eachother in the end anyway. MS>>?Google? – Yahoo>>?Trump? Relative so relative…
[...] osoft yrittää selvitä valheilla? WeBreakStuff: A company I wouldn’t work for Molly: No Mr. Ballmer, Microsoft Will Not Win the Web
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I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but I think there’s too much being read into this. Microsoft is a software company. My interpretation of his comments in that context were:
“We currently don’t have the best tools to view and develop for the web, but we will.”
Whether or not it’s true that they eventually will, I believe that’s what he meant.
I 100% agree that the “Web” is not a prize to be one and was built on the idea that no one owns the web and that it’s platform-independent. In those terms MS will never own the “Web.” The harsh reality of it though is that they may not “win the web” but they certainly have the strongest and largest hold in the market for applications and client tools that allow users to browse the web. I’m not for any one company dominating the market on anything, but when the majority of users out there are non-technical and could care less what browser they use to get their Yahoo! email, and look at Ebay items, MS will be ahead in the web browsing application market. Not until the entire planet is composed up of people born after 1980 will people be wise enough to NOT allow any one company control the market share on any application. It sucks, but it’s reality. No matter how bad MS is painted in the press about bugs, viruses, spam, etc., etc. it will not change because the generation older than 30 typically could care less whether MS owns the market in something or not…all they want is to get their email and websites and that’s it.
I repeat. It’s a reality.
Molly, They will win because everything from the entertainment side is a now beginning to go through one technological portal which includes the web. Microsoft is positioning itself to be there and we already see what the vehicle is: ‘the X-Box’ This little device is the forerunner or tool being used to gain market share and entrenchment. Its the same principal as when they embedded IE into there O/S. The kids are becoming use to using the X-box, its a natural evolution of technological easiness. Microsoft is making easy for the average user to use their devices to accomplish everyday tasks. Just watch they are already gaining a foot hold. They are just using the video gane to develop a new market share. I hope this does not happpen but watch its going to HAPPEB.
Just more talk from the big dawgs. I too respect the modern day developers for Microsoft. They’re doing great things…and they’re probably reading this right now. Good for them. It’s gotta suck when your bosses get up and say something dumb like that… and even as one pointed out that this could have been possibly taken out of context…he should have known better.
Excellent comedians at Microsoft
Microsoft’s greatest comedian, Mr. Steve Ballmer, has entertained us with this words (in Busines Week):
“The output of our innovation is great. We won the desktop. We won the server. We will win the Web. We will move fast, we will get there. We will win the Web.”
I haven’t had such an amusing time since the days in which the other great comedian at Microsoft, Mr. Craig Mundie, spoke about GPL.
Thank you, Microsoft, for sharing with us your humor!
Rob Belics Said:
You may remember my comment a few weeks ago that “you got bought”. Now you know of what I was referring. Ballmer and MS have only one thing in their sights and that is to win it all. One way is to feign the interest in web standards by joining with WASP and being on the W3C committee.
———————————–
Yeah, yeah, it’s lot of fun to say “I told you so” and be the one to uncover a huge conspiracy, but… you’re not the one.
How, exactly, would feigning interest in web standards help Microsoft win it all? Answer: it wouldn’t. The people who care about web standards will do nothing more than they already did to help MS “win it all”, until MS delivers. That is, until MS releases a browser that takes standards seriously. Yeah, we’re happy that things finally seem to be moving, we’re cheering them on – but it’s not gonna do them one ounce of good until they’ve delivered.
OF COURSE they want to win it all! (No shit, Sherlock?!) And if they can achieve that goal by adhering to standards – great for all of us.
As for “being on the W3C committee”, MS has been a member of the W3C since before WaSP was founded. No news there.
Chris Said:
September 18th, 2005 at 4:41 am
your argument is contradictary. Microsoft states they want to make their product the standard – this makes you upset because you are fighting for standards.
———————————–
You’re joking, right?
Let’s put it like this:
“Your wife/husband/whatever serves you meat for dinner. This makes you upset because you wanted meat.”
Sounds crazy, yeah – until you realize that there are different kinds of meat, just as there are different kinds of standards.
The power and arrogance of Microsoft
First off, this post is what some people would call very “anti-Microsoft”. So, if this sort of…
So I was browsing News.com — eh, I was reading about Vista and Office 12 — and came across a July 28th story that included a couple paragraphs that sounded awfully familiar:
“The [Microsoft] CEO [Steve Ballmer] also focused a good deal of attention on the company’s competition with Internet leaders such as Yahoo and Google.
“‘We have won on the desktop,’ Ballmer said. ‘Now we really are going to win on the Web.’
“Ballmer said the Web will be the No. 1 place to advertise, noting that there will eventually only be a handful of major places to advertise on the Internet. ‘You can rest assured this company will be one of them.’”
Source: http://news.com.com/Ballmer+High-end+Windows%2C+Office+coming/2100-1016_3-5808554.html?tag=st.rn
This time he said “win the Web,” last time he said “win on the Web.” That IS an attitude difference. Google really is making him go crazy, huh?
*ducks as a chair flies by*
“We will win the Web.”
Coming from Steve Ballmer this does not surprise me. You show contempt for open standards and open formats and spread lies about free and open source software (society will apparently collapse if it uses free and open source software), GPL/LGPL (they are a “cancer”), GNU/Linux (it is costly, insecure and you’ll get sued by using it), and manipulate markets through criminal activities (U.S. DOJ, EU,…) to sustain your arrogant monopoly and the twin pillars of your corrupted empire; MS-Windows and MS-Office.
You can’t win the Web. We are the Web and you lost our TRUST a decade ago.
nice sentiment that they won’t win the web…butwhile they rule the desktop, they run the web…..i have enough difficulty convincing folks that Firefox looks and runs like IE….
“That is, until MS releases a browser that takes standards seriously.”
==========================================
MSIE7 Will Not Support application/xml+xhtml MIME Type — Chris Wilson, Microsoft
[...] d some will only run in Vista. This is Microsoft’s attempt to finally own the web as Steve Balmer was recently quoted as saying. Once Expression/.NET b [...]
He won what? “made in china” and “walmart” are perfect examples of quantity over quality.
Unfortunately, quantity means $$, quality means pride…
I perfect my solitaire while clients ask me to “hold, while they restart” or “wait, I crashed”
I’m sorry, I just have to jump in here. (full disclosure: I work for Microsoft Research)
The entire BusinessWeek article is set up to portray Microsoft in the worst possible light. It’s full of factual errors, stretched truths, and misrepresentations designed to make MS and Ballmer look bad.
Just because a Google employee says that Ballmer threw a chair, doesn’t mean it really happened. Just because BusinessWeek says Ballmer said something, doesn’t mean he actually said it, or in that context, or that it means what BusinessWeek says that it means.
A couple of other points: “server” is not the same as “web server.” Windows NT has a very large share of corporate servers. If Ballmer did in fact say what BW claims he said, he could have meant that. Also, paraphrasing Steve Jobs, everybody doesn’t have to lose in order for Microsoft (or any other company) to “win”. It’s a big (and growing) pie, and there’s room for a lot of companies, plus open source, to compete and to partner. The only high-tech exec I’ve ever heard claim that he wanted 100% of a market was Jim Barksdale when he was at Netscape.
The most important point, though: don’t believe everything you read. Reporters make their reputation on sexy stories, but sexy stories aren’t always true stories.
“Just because BusinessWeek … said something, doesn’t mean he actually said it … or that it means what BusinessWeek says that it means.”
So BusinessWeek only publishes lies or damn lies?
So other articles, Like the alleged tirade Ballmer went through when a developer was going to quit and go to Google are lies? So everything that we hear and read about Ballmer is just fabricated, trumped-up lies?!
Looks like they do brainwash the workers before they herd them into the HQ like cattle up there.
I notice more and more that M$ is trying to (or dare I say COPY??) copy Mozilla/Firefox with its web developer toolbar… eerily similar indeed. Tabbed browsing? Hmm… been done way before Firefox and Opera too..
Ballmer walks around and talks a big game, but he hasn’t won my server (Linux) ,desktop (Linux), laptop (linux), software (open source), hardware (logitech), and browser (opera/firefox). Hell, I will use Konqueror or Lynx before I use Internet Destroyer.
I am also selling developing for other browsers first at my office and trying to spread the word about web standards and all the other stuff I have learned in the past three years.
Microsoft hasn’t won anything with me but loathing and a trail of broken css.
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This is so old.
If people put as much effort into their own lives as they put into hate others, Microsoft, the President, etc…, then those people would be many times more successful.
Opinions are one thing, but when it becomes a collective obsession as it has been for so long, its just gets old and tiring AND IGNORED.
If you’re all so dead against successful people in great places but dont how or why they are there, then knock them off the hill. MY GOD already.
oh and what’s this “we” crap?
“We the people will make sure you never do.”
Is this the same as those uber-stupid “gas-out” day emails that AOL’ers send around when they get angry about gas prices going up?
Geez
Can’t stand an anti-Microsoft opinion can you Mike? Well guess what, this is the Internet, deal with it.
No Mike, this has nothing to do with chain letters. Personal insults don’t belong in a conversation as important as this one.
Tim Berners-Lee has given a great gift to the world, technology that belongs to the people.
Microsoft can never own or win the web, neither can governments or other corporations (yes, even you Google).
The web is bigger than any one person, company, country or ideology.
“Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams
himself your master.”
Information belongs to no one, it wants to be free.
No one wants Microsoft as their master.
You pay to get online, no? You pay for your lights, heat, water, TV, Internet, etc – no?
Do you provide profession design services for free too? Should everyone in the world live and work for free?
Man, you folks have dreams bigger than the universe. Unfortunately you wake up when the BILLS arrive.
Microsoft puts food on my family’s plate and children through college. Before that it was IBM and other giants in the tech world. In over 40 years working with INFORMATION, never once have I seen it “free” and it will never become free.
Go ahead and provide your services for free but let me know how you’ll eat and pay the bills.
It amazes me how today’s kids have this clouded, muffled view of the world.
Your ignorance betrays you Mike. You demonstrate that you do not understand what the issues are, what the word “free” means, how the software industry works and your intolerance of anyone that has an anti-Microsoft opinion.
I’m baffled, you have over 40 years of experience in the industry yet you conflate anything anti-Microsoft with free software, paying the bills, and services; amazing. I don’t know what is worse; your intolerance of anti-Microsoft opinions or your igorance of the issues.
“Microsoft puts food on my family’s plate and children through college.”
And I suppose that, I don’t know, a company like Netscape didn’t put food on some family’s plate?
That is until Microsoft decided to abusively wield its monopoly to eliminate Netscape distribution channels, bind Internet Explorer to Windows and make it impossible (and illegal) for OEMs to remove it, therefore forcing IE on the world; a fantastically insecure browser that pushed proprietary garbage on the web and set back the pace of open standards/formats adoption many years.
[...] based on your search query. Our Profile is here. 6. Microsoft will/will not win the Web Molly Holzschlag writes a lively post responding to Steve Ballmer&# [...]
>Open source or free products is not the >future…MS and growing companies know >this. Look at ALL of the promising >projects that are now on the ash heap of >history.
What, like Apache, PHP, Firefox, Linux and GCC? On the ash heap of industry, the lot of them
Nick
I take something positive from this statement. If he’d been interviewed this time last year, he could have said “We have won the web” with some justification, at least as far as browsing is concerned.
The fact that MS think there’s a battle to be fought will mean that they start investing resources in fighting it again. When they had competition, IE was one of the best browsers available. It’s only since they won the browser war that they’ve sat back and allowed it to moulder. If MS look to “win” the internet by building a top-notch web browser, that’s gotta be a good thing right? That’s the only way they’re gonna beat Firefox – the bad old methods of putting rivals out of business won’t work if the ravals aren’t in business in the first place.
[...] September 27, 2005 molly.com » No Mr. Ballmer, Microsoft Will Not Win the Web molly.com » No Mr. Ballmer, Microsoft Will Not Win the Web [...]
[...] nts Don’t Care About Accessibility, by Christian Heilmann. At Digital Web Magazine. No Mr. Ballmer, Microsoft Will Not Win the Web, by Molly Steve Kr [...]
Molly, you rule. Steve Ballmer is an arrogant moron. It’s statements like this that reinforce the fact that Microsoft is still and will always be a company seeking a monopoly on everything computer-related.
If Microsoft thinks they’ll always be on top, they’re as delusional as they are malignant.
Rome, too, thought they owned the world.
They can and probably will win interfaces/archival of e-learning, university, health service, government portal, home-entertainment, e-commerce. From there it’s a short hop to forcing developers to drop the standards ball to put food on the table.
They’ll need 5-7 years, after which only the stalwarts will care, as they’re pushing their trollies full of bags around.
For it not to happen, you’re all going to need to get into management.
Microsoft have, quite probably, out witted the standards bearing communist shrills they invoked in the minds of many. The truth is that it’s our own fault for permitting IE to live for so long. You were all already beaten by the apparently shameful concept of “browser elitism”, you knew it didn’t add up. No going back.
It’s very sad.
@Anon
What you’re saying was what was being said years ago when IE had over 96% share of the market under its belt. Back then too it was believed that the standards cry was futile and was going to die due to IE’s dominance and the poor support across other browsers. Well, just look at standards now – the standards wheel has progressed and come very far since then.
IE and Microsoft’s position has weakened considerably since the days of the extermination of Netscape by Microsoft’s scheming practices. Linux is beginning to be more widely recognized and certain governments have even made the complete switch to Linux due to security issues. Firefox and other standards compliant browsers are posing a real issue for IE.
And above all, web developers interested in standards and the abandoning of proprietary technologies are starting to get fed up with Microsoft’s broken browser. The only reason Microsoft has all of a sudden expressed such keen interest in standards support is that that the new kid on the block Firefox has been so widely accepted by standards based developers that Microsoft fears that it will lose developer support.
Just look at Microsoft’s track record of standard’s support as that’s plenty proof of Microsoft’s attitude. Now lingering on in its trashy sixth iteration, IE still doesn’t even fully support CSS1 (even though it says it does on the IE site), and I really doubt IE7 will improve that much. What does that tell you about Microsoft? They don’t care about standards.
When IE7 was announced, Chris Wilson’s blog on standards was inundated with requests for decent standards support. Developers are just plain getting sick and tired of MS pathetic behaviour and their half-hearted vague responses to questions. Unless MS listens this time round, they will lose only more support.
Gee, the Microsoft “monopoly” police were stationed at ever software store with GUNS pointed at people heads FORCING THEM to purchase AND THEN USE their software.
Dont give me these froo-froo liberal views on SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT and distribution.
People WORK to develop software and should get PAID, decently, for their labor.
Ignorance? ha. who he heck is ignorant? The people who want to SHARE the wealth of OTHERS’ hard work or those who do so without asking?
Next time you’re spending MY hard-earned dollar by giving it to someone else – at least have the courtesy of ASKING me first.
I’d like to see the look on the plumbers face when he fixes your crapper and you just show him the door as you put your arm around his shoulder and explain to him the many facets of working for the benefit of all. I’d love to see the look on your attorney’s face after she spends 2 hours with you in a consultation and you simply walk out expecting her to work gratis for everyone.
Dont give me any Netscape sob stories. Dont give me any Borland or AOL or anyone else sob stories. ALL OF THEM are in it to make billions and all they do is eat, sleep and crap thoughts of wealth.
And lastly, any 12 year old whiz-kid programmer can put that software giant into a grave from his garage. If you dont think so, wait a couple of years and check back. But if you think that 12 year old is going to give away his work, then you’re definitely the fool here. Even the 12 year old wants to buy baseball cards and candy… OR THE ENTIRE BASEBALL TEAM with his hard-earned money.
Stopping Microsoft isnt going to stop Captialism and the world isnt just made up of people who want to live like artists: depressed and poor, yet outwardly happy.
for “Todd Says: September 22nd, 2005 at 9:21 am ”
You know, it was bound to happen. Microsoft gets on the ball and tries to clean up IE by rewriting it and collaborating with some damn good design/development people who are offering assistance and people like you accuse them of stealing and copying.
You’re all beginning to sound like damn democrat liberals in America who do nothing more than bitch, moan and whine and when asked – have nothing important to contribute.
If you’re all so damn unhappy with Microsoft, then band together and form a development company of your own and beat Microsoft into the ground.
Dont ask me how you’ll eat without any salary from income of your products – but at least you all should TRY instead of just whining like we all see on all these sites. WHINES WHINES WHINES.
its so damn OLD.
Anon: You raise a good point. One day the use of proprietary garbage on government and key e-commerce web sites like banks, telecommunications, utilities etc… will become a thing of the past. One day the use of proprietary MS-Office formats to store public records and exchange, distribute, or publish any kind of data that is indended for large audiences on the web will become a thing of the past.
P.S. Is there any point to Mike’s raving mad incoherent posts?
..For web professionals..it would be rude to say “we are winning the web” but how many of microsoft’s shareholders are web professionals..
well the shareholders will certainly be happy about this statement..and thats what matters to the CEO
let him do his job.
Guys,
Microsoft own IE, most people view the web through IE, therefore Microsft are in a position to prevent thrid-party plug-ins like Flash, WildTangent, Quicktime, Java Applets etc. from running. They are even in a position stop using web standards, and therefore products such as Dreamweaver and Flash will be useless??
Microsoft could very easily win the web, they could even make people pay for IE or stop producing it, and use some other windows proprietary interface to access online content – since they have won the OS market – THE PEOPLE HAVE NO CHOICE, OUR ONLINE EXPEREINCE SEEMS TO BE IN MS HANDS.
I just hope there is some kind of law that will prevent this.
Stopping Microsoft isnt going to stop Captialism…
waits for google to complete their own version of Apache…..
[...] linux distribution, and seriously owns on IE7 feature-wise. (Microsoft, on the other hand, thinks differently about IE7. Firefox is ever-growing in popularity, [...]
any 12 year old whiz-kid programmer can put that software giant into a grave from his garage. If you dont think so, wait a couple of years and check back. But if you think that 12 year old is going to give away his work, then you’re definitely the fool here.
The fact that MS think there’s a battle to be fought will mean that they start investing resources in fighting it again. When they had competition, IE was one of the best browsers available. It’s only since they won the browser war that they’ve sat back and allowed it to moulder. If MS look to “win” the internet by building a top-notch web browser, that’s gotta be a good thing right? That’s the only way they’re gonna beat Firefox – the bad old methods of putting rivals out of business won’t work if the ravals aren’t in business in the first place.
No Mr. Ballmer, You Cannot Have the Web
If I was a shareholder in MS (which I am as it happens), or any large blue-chip internet based company, this is exactly what I would want to hear. It all depends on your interpretation of “win the web”, and based on the raving comments here this means anything from preventing 3rd party add-ons (this is just so daft) to “owning the web”. Can you explain to me how MS will own the web? Insane dribble. To me, to win the web means to win traffic (presumably above 50%), and to do this you need compelling applications which MS is already producing at a rapid rate (along with many other companies). These are exciting times.
I am sick of hearing all this rubbish about IE. IE has been around so long with no significant changes because there was no decent competition. There weren’t any HTML or CSS standards when IE first came out!!! FF took a hell of a long time to come out, and only after taking some architectural ques from the IE dom (namely XPCOM) after the mess that was netscape. And it’s still a lot slower than IE6. Give me a break
I have not used Windows for the last 4 months @ home. I now use Ubuntu Linux instead. There are 4 reasons for this:
1) My operating was Free
2) I don’t get Spyware or Viruses anymore
3) Being told how I should use my computer
4) Steve Ballmar
This is enough for me never to use Windows @ home anymore and I mean it.
Look around you, comrades. Yes, these are fighting words, but not idle boasting. Yes, they are aggressive. That’s what it takes to survive in this industry. I’m 51 years old. I’ve worked for 16 different tech companies in the last 30 years. 10 of them are out of business completely. The other six are barely recognizable from when I worked there. This is a bad neiborhood, people. Bill Gates knows what you had better learn fast. The weak are killed and eaten. Don’t be weak or you’ll be his dinner. Find out what you’re personal weaknesses are and do somthing about them. If you’re ignorant of how the free enterprize system works, then learn fast. Or be some one’s lunch.
Mike seems to be one of the only people posting here that understands what capitalism is all about.
I’ve never listened to more crybaby, whiney ass people in my life. The amount of whining is astonishing!
Hey Mike, could imagine being married to one of these bitchers…I’d rather blow my brains out, then listen to this crap.
Im out.