molly.com
Monday 11 July 2005
Agenda Microsoft: Is it a Sellout when the Prostitute’s Paying?
Since the Web Standards Project (WaSP) announcement of the WaSP / Microsoft Task Force response has been fast, smart and somewhat scary.
There’s plenty of happiness about our alliance, but critics have also piped up.
Microsoft IE7 Straight Up No Ice
If anyone expects any Microsoft version of IE7 to solve the world’s problems, much less those of us working the web, get over it. Any changes to browsers will be incremental and WaSP can’t fix that for now. For now.
For now.
Think long term my friends. My agenda is simple.
Work with, not against.
Filed under: policies, standards, software, WaSP, society
Posted by: Molly | 3:33 pm |
July 11th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
I’ll be there, meeting with those dudes.
July 11th, 2005 at 4:15 pm
I thought the whole paragraph in H2 tags was rather fitting and appropriate, Molly.
July 11th, 2005 at 4:38 pm
Yet this is what you - and all of us - REALLY wanted. Fixes to the rendering enigine. Look, I understand why IE7 will behave different than other browsers….
Still, let’s be PERFECTLY CLEAR from the start Molly. You have NO influence whatsoever on this. None.
Call it transparency, call it communications…. whatever… shut us web developers down RIGHT NOW if we have to. We understand…. dancing with “devil” is an awfully hard thing to do!
July 11th, 2005 at 5:40 pm
#gasps #
My initial reaction: the word ‘prostitute’…on this (Molly’s) site…and the word ‘Microsoft’ too!!
(My imagination wandered for a moment, got a tan in the bahamas, then came back again!)
July 11th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Okay, a more considered response now: You’re right Molly (hardly a damn surprise!) - the sheer magnitude of the task(s) at hand dictate that this will not be an overnight change and that it could take some considerable time before WaSP’s efforts with M$ are fruitful.
Right now though - the prospect of Microsoft actually coming up with the goods on ‘web standards’ (with the guidance of WaSP) is a very tempting one indeed.
The ‘Hottest Buzz’ WaSP have generated so far?
What WaSP should be commened for is unveiling this ambitious project so soon after the wonderful news about the ATF.
I still with the team every luck with this venture and to hell with the cynics.
July 11th, 2005 at 5:53 pm
‘with’ = ‘wish’ (typo in my previous post!)
July 11th, 2005 at 9:07 pm
Microsoft still doesn’t meet standards set in 2000 and we are still thinking long term? If Firefox thought that way wouldn’t they be on HTML 3.2?
July 11th, 2005 at 11:53 pm
I think Molly has more influence than many comments give her credit for. I like her attitude and approach here.
July 12th, 2005 at 12:13 am
Maybe WaSP would have had more influence if we’d been smarter, moved faster, moved earlier.
Or, maybe it’s easier now because Firefox has done so well, Microsoft is feeling pain, we’ve had Scoble help us talk to a lot of people. We have folks like Joe Marini and other Microsoft developers putting in hard time straddling corporate politics and standards.
Maybe it’s just a good time to do this.
I really, really understand why people are frustrated - I’m one of those people too, remember?
But this is HARD. If it had been easy, it’d have been solved already.
The point of this post is to clarify at least MY agenda with Microsoft (not necessarily WaSP’s - note this post is on my site only).
If I can’t help persuade fixes to IE7, so what. Leave .NET and Visual Studio users in a rut when it doesn’t have to be that way?
I believe we influence when, where and how we can. This is a doorway, I’m walking through it. What’s so hard to see about that? The “devil dancing” and “cold day in hell” jokes are just that: jokes. Humor to lighten up what has otherwise not been the smoothest of rides.
There’s always a solution for people who don’t agree with my take, of course. And that’s to try a different method. One doesn’t preclude the other. In fact, I say go forth and do. I’ll be interested in hearing back, truly!
July 12th, 2005 at 7:32 am
I applaud you for walking through the door. I applaud you for making the best of a situation. I applaud you for doing. I applaud you for being open to any and all possibilities. I applaud you for blazing a trail that others can follow. I applaud you for continuing to work hard to make our world a better place.
July 12th, 2005 at 10:53 am
Molly: Walking through the doorway is a good thing…..(walking in the door would have been tragic!)
July 14th, 2005 at 2:52 am
I am delighted that this collaboration is taking place. The fact that it is happening shows they are willing to listen and work on getting IE moving up a gear or two on webstandards. Be realistic, every improvement in the IE browser will make our work easier.
July 25th, 2005 at 7:04 pm
who are you, and are you o.k….
July 28th, 2005 at 12:21 pm
[…] yone. Nonetheless, this is good news. Waiting patiently… Addition In another Molly post, which I just read (I’m reading backward […]
August 3rd, 2005 at 12:43 pm
Standard = majority? Not always!
Maybe I am being too literal here, after all when I hear ‘none-standard’ I assume the minority. So here we have a none standard browser that is used by the majority…
Dont get me wrong, I am all for the standards (it makes life so much easier) however these poor Windows users are still using IE for everything. And why wouldn’t they? After all most (all?) sites work with IE. Why do I use FireFox? Simple really- stability and ease of use plus the extensions are very handy.
The standards are transparent to most users. If something doesnt work with FF, I use IE. Its no problem, after all its more important that I complete my task than whine about standards and not get something done. I have to pick the tool for the job.
I’d love to say that my boss understands if I haven’t purchased a much needed part online because I couldn’t get to the checkout with FF or maybe Opera. But in reality sometimes it is about progress, not lack of.
As stated, working against MS just will not do. After all, most businesses will use IE. Why? Comfort in support and ease of having just one vendor assuming of course that they are running Windows. This culture will take a long long time to be pursuaded otherwise. So, why try to force a change? Working with MS is surely the only way. I am pleased to see they want to work with others.
Molly I have just discovered your site and I like it a lot- hey i am writing an essay here!
Nice to see that the IE door is a bit open, and I wish you well with your little chats with MS
August 23rd, 2005 at 8:39 pm
CSS Zen Garden出書了
在網絡暴民 Jacky’s BLOG看到的訊息，網路上著名的CSS Zen Garden發起人Dave Shea及Molly E. Holzschlag合著的新書The Zen of CSS Design在這幾天上市了，CSS Zen Garden一直是我相當崇拜的網站，裡面的CSS運用簡…
September 21st, 2005 at 9:17 am
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